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before the end of the year. dave: think of the billions of dollars that will be in the economy just when people will be buying those blue boxes. this could be a nice stimulus for the economy. john boehner saying he has seen no substantive progress on the fiscal cliff talks in the last couple weeks. what compromises need to be made? sheila bair, being a former fdic chair, telling us 4 ways wall street can help out and it is not all good news for investors. liz: did you see the cover of the wall street journal? fed stimulus like gillian 2013. we talked about this the second broke yesterday halfway through the 3:00 p.m. show. the man who wrote the article, wall street journal's chief economic correspondent and chief head head to lend us live. dave: before that is of we will tell you what drove the market with the data download. stocks extending yesterday's gains finishing a volatile session higher with the dow, s&p and nasdaq trading above the 200 day moving average for the first time in three weeks. telecom and health care were the top performing sectors. fewer americans filing first-time
this one and that is good for the american economy. >> we look back republican senator rand paul from the state of kentucky. senator paul, welcome, as always. i want to ask you about the fiscal cliff, the state of play. there's revenues on the table. there's tax rate increases on the table. i don't know if there's spending on the table. what's your thinking prigt now? >> that it's a really, really bad idea to raise taxes. if you want your economy to grow, you should do the opposite. we have to cut taxes. that's how i'd fix the economy. leave more money in the private sector. the president is adamant about raising taxes and he's dead wrong. >> there are some people saying we need a deal to avoid a huge tax increase but year end that would throw us into recession. just a thought, would you compromise in terms of let's say a smaller tax rate increase -- let's say the top rate goes to 37% instead of 40%, maybe the threshold goads es to $500,000 $750,000 rather than $250,000? does that interest you? >> no. but what about means testing for entitlement. why don't we say the rich get less soc
is good for the economy. if they have different suggestions and want to go further in some areas, they should lay it out to us. >> you say they are in a hard spot, what do you mean? >> they are trying to figure out how to find a way to support things that they know they are going to have to do that will be very hard for them. you've heard them for the first time in two decades now acknowledge that they are willing to have revenues go up as part of the balanced plan. that's a it good first step but they have to tell us what they are willing to do on rates and revenues. and they have to tell us on the spending side if they want to go beyond where we are or do it differently and they have to tell us what makes sense to them. what we can't do, chris; try to figure out what works for them. >> the president campaigned for re-election on the idea of a, quote, balanced approach, end quote, to deficit reduction. a mixture of tax increases and spending cuts. here's the plan that the republicans say you presented to them this week. >> i can tell you what i presented if it would be helpful.
think the ramifications for the economy are too significant. i think we're watching whatever you want to call it, all of the politics playing out, but i still think in the end we'll get a last minute deal. >> i agree. and i think even though the sides are far apart, you have things on the table now. so you can say you're here at 800, 1.6, you kind of -- it gets you somewhere close. somebody will try to say 1.3 versus 1.1, but if you see publicly what they're stating and hopefully privately other things are going on, but it will get done, but it will be very slow. >> john boehner with the proposal he put on the table, i did see commentary from some of the far right saying this is not an acceptable proposal. even his proposal is not acceptable. i did see comment it ter that came through. my question is does the president now have to alienate some of his far left base in order to reach a compromise. >> i think you'll see both of them have to actually bring the parties together. because you won't get everybody happy. some of the people who got voted on the ticket side, no, never. but it w
. we have to put entitlements on the table? >> for the sake of the over all economy we must put enments on the table. over the last four years entitlement spending is growing faster than the over all economy. this is why president obama has this country in record debt. that hurt the economy. take-home pay decreased under president obama. we must get entitlements under control. >> rick at the unemployment and housing vouchers. it is 800 billion extra spending. doesn't that have to be cut. >> there is no chance that there will be a dole without entitlement cuts. what senator durbin is talking about is the importance of focusing. if we want a deal you will not doing by taking a wide sprect rum approach. president clinton was clear when he spoke to the republicans. he pointed out that the biggest driver of the united states debt is medicare. he understands that we have to face up to the medicare problem. we need a solution. >> the conference that rick was referring tompt he said folks, i won and i get to make the decision and he grew the budget by 800 billion every year. one-time stimulus h
referred to things that will help make the economy stronger in the short-term and let me explain why we proposed that. what we are suggesting is that we work to rebuild the country's infrastructure, rather than putting it off, doesn't say just to put it off and extend unemployment insurance benefits and help make it easier for americans to refinance mortgages and, tax incentives for business investment and proposed how to do that in a fiscally responsible way we can afford to pay for and matched those proposals, with spending savings that, together as part of the plan, get us down to the point where we stabilize our debt and that is the critical test. >> chris: let me drill down into the spending part of the equation, here they're increases, spending increase as you are proposing. $150 billion, in stimulus, public works projects over several years. a $30 billion extension of unemployment insurance, for one year. extension of payroll tax cuts, mortgage relief, deferral, of automatic cuts for doctors and medicare. here are the spending cuts. unspecified savings from nonentitlement program
that there may be some more demand coming for the metal from china and the u.s. as well. as both of our economies begin to churn a little more than expected. the top two copper-consuming countries. >> and following auto sales today, a number of derivatives plays hitting 52-week highs. cooper tire and rubber, genuine parts and carmax taking a hit in today's session. david: all right. and we told you about that breaking news on jpmorgan whale trader, a $5 billion loss for the company. the senate has been investigating. peter barnes with the latest on that investigation. peter? >> reporter: well, that's right, david. the senate, a senate investigation subcommittee has questioned more than 80 people in its probe of $5.8 billion in trading losses in may by jpmorgan chase, the london whale trading losses, according to two people familiar with the investigation. now, according to the sources the people -- according to one of the sources, the people include current and former jpmorgan employees as you would expect. now, reports of this probe first -@surfaced in the fall. now we can report that investigat
to work on what we all agree to, which is let's keep middle-class taxes low. that's what our economy needs. that's what the american people deserve. >> white house also turning to social media has a twitter hash tag to spread its message. >> today i'm asking congress to listen to the people who sent us here to serve. i'm asking americans all across the country to make your voice heard. tell members of congress what a $2,000 tax hike would mean to you. call your members of congress. write them an e-mail, post it on their facebook walls. you can tweet it using the hash tag #my2k. not y2k, my2k. >> i think that's going to push us into the promised land. >> i was incredibly encouraged. i had been depressed and then i said this could actually get done with a hash tag. >> you're very pessimistic. we heard erskine bowles saying yesterday, he thinks it's less than a one in three chance, of course, co-author of the simpson-bowles plan. >> i was in washington earlier this week and met with a lot of these characters. the bottom line is there have been a lot of meetings, most of them between people w
. stuart: you agree with me, if this plan, anything like it from the president, were imposed on the economy at this time it would lead to recession. >> i think that the president is fully aware as are democrats and anybody realistic. stuart: you make that judgment. >> i am not a fan, by the way, never have been, i thought the fiscal cliff thing was ridiculous in the beginning. no, no, but prefacing my answer to you. stuart: higher taxes of this magnitude on an economy that's already weak with 8% unemployment, you do that and now it's not-- >> no, no, no, i do not believe that raising the marginal tax rates to the clinton rates for the wealthiest among us-- >> i knew you were going to say that, you're comparing a totally different economy. what we have now is 8% unemployment. very sluggish growth and a trillion dollar deficit every year. you propose to raise taxes in that environment and you're not going to get growth. >> don't you understand you need to off set-- if you're serious about debt reduction, i think you are, don't you understand you need revenue and spending cuts. stuart: and how
that's what he's trying to do. it's hard to see where the upside is for the president if the economy slips into recession, talking about 2013 having no growth would be horrible. >> yeah, so, it's a little hard to see what the game is. as kim was mentioning, the president wants these tax increases. it seems to me we're going to go through this sort of scorpion dance the rest of the year. what did the president campaign on? what was the one thing, i think most people would say he campaigned on, that's raising tax rates on the wealthiest, the two top rates, that's the thing i think is on the table and-- >>, but the republicans put that on the table. >> and the republicans put that on the table the a through deductions and-- >> yeah. but they're willing to put that on the table. the question is, what does the president then give republicans in return, if anything? >> well, i think that's what the republicans position should be. say we have committed what you campaigned on. if you're not willing to talk about reducing spending, they are we're not going to be able to do a deal with you. an
, these guys don't think that the economy is going to suffer that much. they think they will take credit. that is how they think. talk about social engineering. what happened to the jack kemp argument. what about empowerment. john f kennedy had the same thing. i don't want to bring some down and some up. i want to bring everybody up. where is that argument? >> and jack kennedy said, if you want to raise tax revenues, you must cut tax rates. the opposite of what obama said. they don't believe it. they want a western european style cradle to grave state. they want to make sure that they preserve it and they want to pay for it. the middle class is going to be nailed and they are going to blame republicans and they are going to have to go back to get more money. isn't it mostly true, taxing the rich, and you poll the whole electric. the middle income people believe they are going to be next. middle income say you are not going to get enough money there. they are going to hit me and there is going to be a carbon tax. president obama needs to expand the government. i wish the majority of the m
in the economy that would indicate that the job market is strong enough to actually bring down that overall unemployment rate. earlier this fall weekly jobless claims had dipped below that line, right before the election, and now they seem to be creeping above it, 393,000 is the number that we're hat today. it's interesting to note that we're going to get an overall unemployment number coming out. some people think based on this number that that could go back above 8% as well. bill: we were so keane on these numbers and waiting for them to tell us what they would tell us about the economy, and how voters were thinking and feeling and how it would play out in the election. a lot of people are now saying hey man, wrist the attention on the numbers. job number one is how to maybe the economy stronger. guess who is coming to the white house for lunch? >> mr. president you're entitled as a president to your own aeu own airplane and own house but not to your own facts. bill: those are topics that will likely not come up today. martha: peanut butter and honey is mitt romney's sandwich. we'll see i
two acquisitions. plains exploration and mcmoran exploration. >>> concerns over the u.s. economy as adp misses estimates. the blame goes to superstorm sandy. goldman says the party is officially over for gold. >> starbucks at an investors conference will add 1,500 stores in the u.s. over the next five years. wait until you hear what they said about china. >> a big day in media. pandora ceo joins us live later this morning as the stock fell nearly 20% on weak guidance and netflix signs a big exclusive with disney. how much are they having to pay up for that? >>> let's deal with this big deal. as i've been telling you we'll see a lot of big deals -- i was wrong. here we are. freeport mcmoran buying not one but two companies. the combined price if you add it all together gets close to $20 billion. that does include debt. let's go through some of the details. it's somewhat complex. let's start with bigger of the two deals. freeport's purchase of plains. approximately $6.9 billion in total now. it's a cash and stock deal. .6531 shares and 39 bucks a share in cash. that adds up to $50
savings as part of that and invest in things that matter to the american economy. we think we can do that. we have a good chance to do it now. it's important that we do it. i think we're going to get there. >> given tough talk over the weekend, why aren't we waking up to down numbers, red arrows? >> europe is terrific. bond rates are phenomenal. a great run. china numbers are better. i think that there's a lot of people who feel like doug cast does who writes with me with a piece in "the new york times" saying that -- >> most stuff is nontaxable accounts any way. most stocks that people won't be as motivated to sell as people think. of course that doesn't necessarily deal with the increase in payroll taxes and the whole recession side of it. it does deal with the stock market side in terms of selling. >> why not say, listen, fiscal cliff, i have to cut numbers. i have to cut guidance. i think many ceos will cut guidance because of the possibility that the amt is going to -- this alternative minimum tax, people don't know they have to write a check for $3,500 at the end of the year. once y
the economy is pretty well positioned potentially in 2013 if we can put this behind us. so i think a lot of what's going on is what you would expect to see in this negotiation, very public negotiation, which is not the best way to do it. i think at some point, the president and the speaker are going to get in a room and have some very serious dialogue as this gets closer. my view is that both the administration and the republicans would prefer to put a deal together, and the outlines of that are on the table. >> you talk about the cliff or the abyss? we need to separate the two. it would be nice to have like a bridge to that $4 trillion deal that includes entitlement, tax reform. in fact, i don't know why the president isn't talking about that more with the simpson-bowles. >> the president did say that he doesn't think there's anything we can get done. >> as a bridge to that. always talking about the high end. >> actually, joe, i think the administration wants to see a deal come together here. >> for what, the fiscal cliff or the fiscal abyss? >> for both. >> for both. >> so that a down
those technical terms. and jonas, pushing back the deadlines, what does it mean to the economy? especially if we don't know in it will be a deal in a month or a deal to do a deal in another year? >> there's absolutely no good at this point in pushing along the current system and waiting to fix it later. yeah, no one wants higher taxes, but we're not in a deep reception right now. we absolutely are going to die if things start to change and in fact, the underlying real problem, the growing deficit on the path to greece, the goal gets worse once we kick the can away. that will be the overriding probleming not the slowing economy not people spending money, but sure, that might not happen in the first two months, but it will eventually happen if we keep kicking down the can. we want to prove to the world that we have a solution and if it takes a few months to get there and higher taxes for a while, big deal, we will get there. that's got to be the plan not just the same nonsense. >> yeah, but larry, that's part of your point, but jonas says we're not in a bad recession, we're certa
on this debate. this is too important to our economy. it is too important for our families to not get it done. it's not acceptable to me and i don't think it is acceptable to you for just a handful of republicans in congress to hold middle class tax cuts hostage simply because they don't want tax rates on upper income folks to go up. >> then one of those congressmen who's presumably on the president's naughty list today, speaker john boehner, who came out just a few minutes after the president spoke. he talked here on capitol hill a little bit about the stalemate that he sees these talks being at this point. sort of a glum take here from the speaker of the house. obviously he's saying that these negotiations not broken down. they continue to talk but a stalemate is the way he characterizeded that. so tyler, not great news here on capitol hill, but there's another week next week. we'll get another crack at this thing. >> eamon, thanks very much. where do we stand? are we any closer to a deal? we thought we'd give you our little guide with the daily spin on our "rise above" deal meter. as you can s
office, bowles has a good reason for saying what he did. the economy would go into a recession, economic output would drop and unemployment rate would go back up to 9.1% by the end of next year. now, the clock is ticking. john and harry, get out of the sand box. 33 days are left. peter difazio of oregon is "outfront" tonight. let me just get a response from you about timothy geithner's plan that he put on the table. 1.6 trillion in revenue. $400 billion in cuts. i'm a little confused because the president said he will give $2.50 in spending cuts for every dollar in revenue. this is, this is the opposite. >> well, finally, the white house has learned not to negotiate with itself, but with the opposition, which is the republicans. remember, there is no real cliff. on january 1st, the only thing that goes away is the social security tax holiday and nobody is seriously talking about continuing that. all the other tax increases don't take place until sometime around march. gives congress plenty of time to rekrit them, but that's $4 trillion of additional revenues. so okay, we're going to cut
. >> and some people fear going off of the cliff could cost thousands of jobs and push our fragile economy back in recession. it seems like we have been down this road before. that deal according to the president and congressional republicans is far from a sure thing. the president said it was a so-called balanced approach to solve this crisis and what he proposed this week was a classic bait and switch on the american people. >> it is unacceptable for republicans to hold middle class tax hostage because they refuse to let them go up on the wealthiest americans. >> people saying that the deal he offered doesn't look like a deal. steve is live in the washington bureau. is there any movement on either side. >> not much. a few republicans who are willing to talk about higher tax rev news but not higher tax rates. the president made a direct appeal to the public. the toy factory in pin pen. he urged congress to pass a bill and extend the era tax cuts for middle class only. >> congress could prevent a tax hike on the first 250,000, of everybodiy income. that means 98 percent of americans and nen per
to inject money in a credit fashion into their economy. and we certainly think we can bring our fixed income expertise and continue to help them. >> that would make sense for cantor. ireland was the mf-will first they were in trouble, then the model for the world. what got them into trouble again, housing or real estate or something or bad banks or -- and now again they're kind of a model for everyone on how to handle it. is that basically the last five years? >> absolutely. certainly was a real estate bubble there. now there are austerity measures being put in place and they're actually following through on the austerity measures. so certainly they'll come out first and actually look pretty good. >> so where is the most business for you for cantor in ireland, what will you be doing? >> certainly it's an equity based firm. we'll bring our fixed income expertise, probably become the primary dealer there. the irish government will continue to have to have bond issuances as well as corporate debt will start to become a much bigger part of their economy. >> who else looked at this firm, do you k
back this morning, a new report finds that exporting nat gas will actually help the u.s. economy, but not every day is a winner. >>> vice chairman alan blinder will tell us what he thinks. >>> a new study from the federal government shows exporting u.s. natural gas overseas has the potential to reshape the global energy markets. the obama administration has said the study will be central to the decision on whether to export. he said exporting the gas would be a bigger impact on the economy. >> slap in the face of dow chemical. of coke, not coke the beverage company. but this was something that was hotly disputed within the romney campaign. he really let this stuff go because the romney campaign had some very big givers that were chemical companies. >> do we know, say, very bad, how much will prices conceivableably go up if we become an exporter of natural gas? is it that great a difference? >> we burn offer more natural gas than we use. burn off, in other words literally, you see those flames, we flare more than we use. so we got a real excess of this stuff. >> the government say
cliff? are you expecting the economy to go over the fiscal cliff and see these taxes go high hadder and spending cuts take effect? >> my personal view is i'm still optimistic. i think the conversation has been constructive since. do we have a solution on the table yet? no. but i'm optimistic we'll get to a framework. >> why? >> there's been enough dialogue. there's been movement. everyone seems to recognize the problem. everybody realizes there has to be a revenue component, spend component, entitlement reform component. for us, the business community and all the ceos, certainty is the greatest stimulus for us. >> do you support tax rates going higher? >> me personally, as an individual, more importantly the business community, which i'm part of. we support something inclusive. if rates were higher in a videocasset vacuum, i'm not sure we'd be supportive of that. we have to make sure the consumers, those who spends a lot of the dollars, the middle class, are protected in this exercise. >> i guess the question i'm really getting at is, do you get the revenue from tax increases or fro
, in order to protect small businesses and our economy. instead, new revenue would be generated through progrowth tax reform that closes special interest loopholes and deduksz while lowering rates. i'm going to guess that is the very line that the white house is going to say no deal to, right? >> so let me understand. if, in fact, we want $800 billion in new revenues, and we can do that through closing loopholes, limiting deductions for the wealthy in this country, and we're going to not have a deal because it's not a rate increase, but rather taking the same amount of money from the same people and we're going to say no to that? >> well, there are people who said, the math doesn't work out. closing the loopholes doesn't get you enough money. >> soledad, i've been studying this for seven years. that's bologna. there's -- it's easy to get $800 billion out of the wealthy in this country by limiting deductions and taking away options that are specifically benefiting only the well off in this country. >> case, but -- >> all you have to do is -- for example, people making more than $250,000
not interfere with the economy the way it was beginning to. oil stepped back about one and three-quarters percent today closing at $86.38. liz: the ecb cutting at least the rate forecast of growth and so, nonetheless, that didn't help the picture, but the tech sector rallying today. as we mentioned, apple helping to push the rebounded after yesterday's steep drop. it hit a four-year low yesterday. let's look at iyw, apple makes up more than 22% of this etf which also holds tech heavyweights ibm and microsoft, three-quarters of a percent gain, and then the tech etf xlk also rose today. the fund's very large holding is, of course, apple. >>> we've got two ceos coming up that you are going to want to listen to. tom is the ceo of tmx group. it owns and operates the toronto stock exchange to our neighbors in the north, here in studio talking about the changing landscape for exchanges. the possibility of more acquisitions to come. david: and we're also going to be talking with the ceo and president of choice hotels, this is steve joyce. steve is going to be talking about their expansio
the economy is going to be hurt and i think both sides, especially the president deserve blame. stuart: who will get the blame? >> the republicans clearly are going to get the blame and hurting themselves. stuart: but we may go into a much slower economy and hurts the president. >> bad news for the president and even worse news for the the american people. stuart: i agree with that. all right, doug, not bad the at all. >> still a democrat. stuart: is that a tag line to every interview? >> it may well be. doug, thanks very much indeed. >> the so the president has made it very, very clear, drawn a line, no fiscal cliff deal without higher tax rates for the highest earningers, tax rates have got to go up. question, what will speaker boehner have to say about that? his reaction will be new at ten this morning. mark stein is going to be here as well and he'll join us to explore that and more. we have an oil and mining deal to tell, but. freeport mcmoran and copper and gold will have exploration and two separate deals for 9 billion in cash and stock. i'm not quite sure what all of that means. jus
this was for the economy. this is a multiyear low reading in the manufacturing numbers. we haven't seen a number like this since 2009. we haven't seen an employment index number like this since september of 2009, the last time it was at this level, unemployment, 9.8%. we have a nonfarm payrolls number coming out on friday. you'll be lucky to see a positive number in front of that. i don't see how the market overcomes that kind of thing. independent of all this jibber jabber over the fiscal cliff, the economy is in really rough shape now. >> it is. we're seeing businesses cut back, getting ready for the eventuality they see coming, no deal by december 31st this worsening. sam, how do you want to be invested in 2013? where is the growth in the economy coming from, if anywhere? >> i think the growth is coming from an improvement in the housing sector. i think we are starting to see a slowdown in the job loss from the government sector. so, i think we're going to be seeing a better than half speed recovery. so, you do want to be taking a balanced approach. we do favor the consumer discretionary at this p
of this country's economy. and actually, things are looking up, if you look at -- >> they're not saying that. >> -- the data. >> they're not saying that. i'm saying small business owners will be hurt. >> yeah. >> if you raise taxes. but -- we're talking about compromise. this is my view. you've got your view. you know what the answer is? >> yeah. >> getting together and talking saying, listen, this is what i can live with. you know what? 39.6% is offensive, even raising it 1 percentage point is offensive. why don't we do what warren buffett says and anybody that makes $1 million or more pays 30%, a minimum tax rate of 30%. and you raise the level up to $500,000 instead of $250,000 and i'll go ahead and reluctantly agree to raise the top rate to 37%. that's how deals are done, but you never get there if you don't have a president and congress -- >> but they can't do that now. >> why can't they do that? >> it's the centerpiece of their argument since the campaign and tim geithner on the sunday shows. they say there is no deal about raising taxes on the wealthy. >> and they're right. the matter
to the economy. >> that's all the control they have left. they don't want to lose that in two years. back to the math to dig into this. they need, what? $900 billion -- >> a $1.1 trillion deficit, one $2 billion a year so debt does not grow a percent of gdp. >> how do we get there? the number on the table last week from the democrats on the entitlements was $400 billion. >> over ten years. >> that's nothing, nothing. >> letting the tax cuts expire, people earning over $250,000, that's $50 billion. >> how do you do this then? >> raising dividends, capital gains, state taxes, you need $800 billion more. the only way to get there is enormous spending cuts or e enormous tax increases. we raise $1.1 trillion a year. we need $900 billion to close the gap. that's an 80% across the board tax increase. >> is it realistic to close the gap? >> you can't let debt continue to grow forever. you have to step in the right direction, and this is a two prong negotiating strategy for democrats. get $150 # million a year from the wealthy, and then negotiate on the other $800 billion. you should recognize tha
of things are really getting better in the economy is food stamp use. food stamps are up to a record level. november showed 46 million people on food stamps. if things are getting better, how does that keep going up? >>guest: exactly. if you remember back during the campaign, obama was going around bragging saying, i saved detroit with the bailout. really? you saved detroit? is that why detroit is coming begging right now for money? it is insane. he is completely out of touch and he doesn't realize what this economy is like right now for every day folks. >>eric: thank you, michelle. >> there is supposed to be teaching for the kids but are they now towing the white house line? twins. i didn't see them coming. i have obligations. cute obligations, but obligatio. i need to rethink the core of my portfolio. what i really need is sleep. introducing the ishares core, building blocks for the heart of your portfolio. find out why 9 out of 10 large professional investors choose ishares for their etfs. ishares by blackrock. call 1-800-ishares for a prospectus which includes investment objectives, ri
paid down and start growing the economy again. that's not unusual or new to any of us. nobody in the country. so i think the president is sticking to what he said throughout the campaign and as i said 3 million more people voted for him than voted for the other guy. >> with that said, on taxes, if there's any chance on your side, is there any chance on your side to come down to the form of a smaller tax hike on incomes above $250,000 or would you consider keeping rate it is same at $250,000 and raising them only on higher incomes, say half a million or $1 million a year? >> i think it's all part of the negotiations. we know where the president is and that is 250,000. but there are a lot of democrats who voiced back before the campaign 500,000, some say even a million. all of that is going to be negotiated. the president wants 250. if mr. boehner wants to come and offer something different, i'm sure he will do that. but the president stands at 250. which is below even where i was but he won the election. so i'm going to respond to the president though it's a number diffent from
's going to have an impact on the economy? >> of course it is. it is-- well it's not the same as extending the bush tax cuts. it's part of the fiscal cliff, because just like all of these other things, stuart, people are trying to move income out of 2013, into 2012, which makes this year look a little bit better than it should, but what it means is that when we hit january 1st, 2013, the economy's going to collapse as far as i can tell. stuart: whoa, whoa, collapse is a strong word, art. >> collapse as low as we are, i agree. stuart: now, the obamacare tax change is a change in the tax rate. >> yes. stuart: that's something that the president's absolutely insisting on. he wants tax rates to go up for the top two income brackets and that's being forced by the republicans. they don't want the rate to go up. they'll pay more in overall revenue, but don't want the rate to go up. your comments please on the president's stand-fast position on raising tax rates? >> well, rates are where the real action is, i mean, if you broaden the base and lowered rates, tax revenues on the rich went up. you'd
and is fair. that would be good for businesses, for our economy, for future generations. i believe both parties can and will work together in the coming weeks to get that done. we know how that gets done. we're iffing to have to raise a little more revenue. we got to cut on the spending we don't need, building on the trillion dollars of spending cuts we've already made, and if we combine those two things, we can create a path where america is paying its bills while still being able to make investments and the things we need to grow like education and infrastructure. so we know how to do that, but in washington nothing is easy, so, you know, there's going to be some prolonged negotiations, and all of us are going to have to get out of our comfort zones to make that happen. i'm willing to do that. i'm hopeful that the members of congress in both parties are willing to do that as well. we can solve these problems. but where the clock is really ticking right now is on middle class taxes. at the end of the year middle class taxes that are currently in place are set to expire. middle class ta
$2200. we can't let that happen. our families can't afford it and neither can our economy. >> but republicans say the president should quit his campaign mode and come home and take care of business. the latest round of political maneuvering involves pressure from democrats to schedule a vote on the senate plan to extend middle class cuts. but republicans say let's see spending cuts first. >> we need to hear they are willing to make spending cuts now. not promises in the future . the tidal waves comingalt us is social security and medicare and of course, the new health care law of the presidents which is unaffordable and unworkable. >> nancy peel peel calling on speaker boehner to bring it to the floor or she will launch a move to force a vote. boehner is not likely to buckle and pelosi's maneuvering will not do much either. speaker boehner said we are at a stalemate. pat buchanan is joining us in the studio. >> thank you. >> i am glad to have you here. do you think that the president wants to have any real negotiation or is it a show to say if republicans stand up to him,
on the debt. >>> all the numbers indicate that going off the fiscal cliff would hurt the u.s. economy in the short term. but could it be the best thing in the long run? going off that fiscal cliff. to this point most of the conversation has been focused on what happens in january, and for good reason. there's no deal in congress. tax rates go up for a lot of folks, all americans. and a $1.2 trillion worth of defense and spending cuts will be automatically enacted. excuse me, that fiscal cough i told you about. the alternative minimum tax kicks in and put it all together and the results are pretty. the economy would contract by half a percent in 2013. unemployment would raise to 9.1% and the economy would experience what cbo said would be judged as a recession. but after that, then things start to look pretty good. the cbo says after next year by the agency's estimates economic growth will pick up. the labor market will strengthen returning output to its potential level. 5.5% by 2018. essentially if no deal is struck, the federal government would be forced to do what it's refused to do
the fiscal cliff will not just impact the national economy but have a lot of impact on state and local economies, as well, and their state budgets, et cetera. the president, though, is standing firm. and jake carney saying unless the republicans give in on tax rates and raise the bush tax rates on the rich, there is no deal and the president is willing to go off the cliff. they hammered speaker boehner's proposal. >> we don't know who pays. we don't know what we are talking about in terms actual legislation to increase revenues it is magic beans and fairy dust. >>reporter: it doesn't sound like they are ready for a compromise. he said they do not take speaker boehner's proposal seriously enough to offer a counterpropsal so the white house believes the ball is still in the republicans' court. >>shepard: but speaker boehner has moved, if shiply and if for the first time in public but he has moved. >>reporter: he has. he is not willing yet, not yet, anyway, willing to raise tax rates. in speaker boehner's proposal he put revenue, tax revenue of $800 billion on the table. you her the white
communications. that is thomas rudd ledtledge. we'll get his take on the economy and the company's growth plan. a cnbc exclusive. >>> would you get a mortgage from that girl? no, from walmart. a lot of people say they would. what's that all about? we're going to run it down later on "power lunch." >>> we start with my partner sue herera in the center of the action downtown at the nyse. >> stocks are slightly lower right now despite those fiscal cliff anxieties. they've been pretty steady throughout the day. the s&p 500 broke above its 50-day moving average, believe it or not. earlier in the day it's backed off a little bit. economic news and new data shows u.s. manufacturing falling to its lowest level in three years. and there is a little nervousness about the president taking to twitter at 2:00 p.m. eastern time to talk about the fiscal cliff negotiations that are going on. but it is the first trading day of the month and some on wall street are getting bullish for year end. it is going to be a december to remember, i predict it. >> i think this is one of the reasons we're holding up so well
, congress realized that if they couldn't compromise on a deficit and revenue plan, our economy would crash. turns out they couldn't compromise. so here's what they did. in order to force themselves to work together and compromise, they concocted a catastrophic penalty that would itself crash our economy. brilliant. put it another way. if there is an asteroid headed towards the earth, we made it and fired it at ourselves. because otherwise we would never have done the hard work required to protect ourselves from asteroids. >> good morning. it's friday, november 30th. welcome to "morning joe." with us on set, we have msnbc political analyst and vice president and executive editor of msnbc.com, richard wolffe is here. >> he's here? >> my lord. right here on the set. political editor and white house correspondent for the huffington post, sam stein. >> hi. >> cute thing. and msnbc political analyst and visiting professor at nyu and former democratic congressman harold ford jr. >> good morning. >> good morning. >> he's reading. >> put that down right now. put the smut down. close it up. >> i'm l
on the u.s. economy. the weekly unemployment numbers came in as they do every thursday. the labor department reported 370,000 americans filed for first-time unemployment claims. either way, either way, folks, your taxes will go up despite the haggling going on on capitol hill. you will be paying more to the u.s. government. stuart varney joins me now. so, stuart, that's the bottom line. this is what people i think across the country are starting to realize no matter what they negotiate, 2013 will be different for most of us. >> this is the untold tax story. everybody has been concentrating on tax the rich, yes or no. but the payroll tax holiday goes away january 1. neither political party wants to keep it going, therefore the tax -- the social security tax for everybody who works goes up as of january 1. that will take $120 billion out of the economy. it is a tax increase of $120 billion. martha: the bush tax cuts and letting them go versus this increase. how does it all balance out? >> reporter: just consider this. you reported 370,000 people filed for first-time unemployment cla
without raising tax rates which we believe will harm our economy. >> so could we just agree right now, everybody around the table, that both sides are talking about tax increases for the rich? >> i think so. >> it's just a difference between do you get tax increases for the rich? do you get the revenue by raising the top rate or by closing loopholes? i mean, that is where we are now in the debate, right? there is no difference of opinion. both sides agree that they're going to raise taxes on the rich. >> amount. there's a big difference on amount. you have $800 billion and $1.6 trillion. >> and people like you and i believe as well, we end up at $1.2 trillion in the end. >> here's what i don't -- i hear everybody -- the other positive is that both plans come in about $2 trillion. and the difference is $800 billion and $1.6 trillion in taxes and $400 billion and $1.4 billion respective i, democrat and republican, when it comes to entitlements. it would seem to me, if steve rattner were doing a deal and we were looking at buying or selling something, we'd be in a room figuring out how y
will also make the case that this fiscal cliff will have a negative impact on the overall economy and he will push these business leaders to support his approach. soledad? >> dan lothian, in washington, d.c., for us, thank you. >>> just a few minutes we'll be chatting with stephanie cutter, the woman who helped manage president obama's re-election campaign. we'll talk more about the fiscal cliff. >>> first a look at other stories that are making news today. zoraida has that for us. >> good morning to you. the death toll in the philippines is rising this morning. typhoon bopha moving toward beach resorts in the northern part of the country and right now it is packing winds over 90 miles an hour. that storm has already caused massive flooding and landslides in the southern philippines. dozens of buildings have been destroyed and the death toll stands at 133 with hundreds more still missing. >>> meantime in rain soaked seattle there are concerns about more mudslides. meteorologist karen maginnis joins us live from atlanta with the latest. they cannot get a break. >> they really can't, and f
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, the economy, if, in fact, we do go over the fiscal cliff, taxes will go up, major spending cuts will kick in. this weekend republican south carolina congressman seth graham said he thinks that we're going to go off the fiscal cliff in fact and he said this, i think we're going to go over the cliff, it seems to me that they made a political calculation. this offer doesn't remotely deal with entitlement reform in a way to save medicare, medicaid and social security from imminent bankruptcy. senator richard blumenthal is a democrat from the state of connecticut. he joins us this morning. >> good to see you. >> you heard lindsey graham saying he thinks we're going off the cliff. you think that's true? >> i respectfully disagree. i'm really encouraged that we can avoid this fiscal cliff for a number of reasons. first of all, there is a growing group of republicans who say we really need to raise revenue, not just talk about raising revenue, but actually increase taxes on the wealthiest 2%. and they're willing to consider those kinds of taxes that the president proposed so that middle-class americ
personal terms. obviously would also have an impact on our economy because if this family has a couple thousand dollars less to spend, that translates to $200 billion of less consumer spending next year. >> reporter: now, the president said that this is a solvable problem. he remains optimistic. he says that there needs to be some certainty for families who are concerned about their taxes going up, for businesses who are making plans about whether they'll add investments or add employees in 2013, so he's pushing congress to act, wolf. but i can tell you that republicans simply are not seeing eye-to-eye with the president. they also don't want to budge, don't believe the taxes should go up even on the wealthiest of americans, wolf. >> i know they had a phone call -- a phone conversation yesterday the president and house speaker john boehner, has there been any follow-up that we know of? are they talking on the phone? are they gearing up for an actual meeting? john boehner staying in town while this crisis continues. >> reporter: that's right, wolf. he is. and we are told that no additio
is not desirable. economists will come on your show and tell you that that would not be good for the economy. so i think we're dealing with a degree of artificiality right there. >> congressman keith ellison, thanks for joining us. >> any time. thank you. >>> for more on this, let's bring in our cnn political contributor and republican strategist, mary matalin and cornel belcher, democratic strategist and pollster with the obama 2012 campaign. mary, what do you make of the details of this opening bid from the white house? republicans have already dismissed it but does it give us any clues at all about what an eventual deal might look like? >> it's reported that mitch mcconnell, senate minority leader, burst out laughing when he heard it. it's not even worthy of a laugh. it's really sad, it's pathetic. we went from a reasonable theoretical $3 in cuts for $1 in revenue which was basically the simpson-bowles, and are now at $4 of real and immediate tax increases plus new spending for in the future unspecified, uncertain cuts to we don't know what. how could anyone take that seriously? i don't even --
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